Would you end a friendship because of this?

My cousin has serious co-dependency issues. I think we all have been a little co-dependent at one time or another in life but this is just excessive. She is estranged from her husband right now, but they've been together for 10 years. Out of those 10 years she's had 3 kids, and he had an extra two during their marriage. This man has cheated, done drugs, slept with her friends, stolen from her, you name it. Right now he's shacked up with someone else but if things go sour he can have her back at anytime (although she thinks it's the other way around).

So now she's found another loser. She has her three children cramped up in the little two bedroom apartment, she's a waitress, and gets no child support from her husband (and I say that term loosely). This man eats up all her food, tells her that he will not stop seeing his estranged wife, bad mouthed her to friends and family, spends up her money, treats her children badly, gets his friends and family to eat free at the restaurant she works at, you name it.Today she told me he had a bad childhood so she understand why he acts like that. She believes everyone deserves a second chance! What??

This is not a reciprocating friendship, but I feel bad for her. I feel like she has no one to turn to but me but I'm getting sick of it. . .it's crossing a boundary.

What would you do?

EDIT: Oh kids, the poor kids. That's what keeps me in it. A few weeks ago she said she was really focusing on them now because she's been so wrapped up with the loser, mind you he left her. Now that he's bad it's business as usual. Barking at the kids dropping them off any and everywhere, letting HIM watch them when she works. I've offered to take them until she could get on her feet but she said no. Sometimes I want to call CPS, I really do.

I would tell her to stop thinking about herself and start thinking about her kids. I would personally tell her that I don't care what childhood he had, he should never treat her kids bad and she shouldn't allow it. If it were my friend and I thought there was bad things going on I'd call authorities. I have a strong belief that kids don't need to be in bad situations because mom keeps putting up with losers.

If I had a friend like that I think we would have a falling out or a serious talk (I had one with another friend), just because she is acting like this doesn't mean the kids should and you should talk to her very candidly and respectfully about it and if nothing happens, I would be trying to protect the kids. I don't sugar coat with friends, they don't expect me to, and I would tell her her head is up her ass and she needs to think of the stress she puts on you and the bad situation she is putting her kids through.

In the end, you can't help her unless she helps herself.

She needs help that you cannot give her...family or not....

the only thing you can do is tell her that she needs to stop dating losers...get into a counselor to help her find herself and her inner strength and confidence that she needs in order to chose better men in her life...

She can't use her bad childhood as a crutch or an excuse...as long as she has to you to turn to when things go bad, she will continue to make bad decisions...you can tell her that her decisions are bad - she needs to better not only for herself but her children as she is setting a VERY POOR example for her children but you cannot help her...when she is ready to make changes and to think better of herself - she can contact you - but not until then...I'll be here when you hit rock bottom...I love you but I can't do this anymore...the ball would be in her court

The 2nd chance happens right up UNTIL he does any of the following
- treats her children badly
- uses her
- is cheating on his wife
Then it's not a 2nd chance anymore... it's STILL being a douche... and it's 2nd chance BLOWN.

Yeah. I'd be vexed as well.

Have you been telling her "straight", no holds barred BLUNT? If not, do so. It will probably end the friendship AND she might just get some sense knocked into her.

Once a Toxic person, makes me or my life toxic and/or my family (because they are affecting the way I am with my own family/Husband/kids)... then that IS a toxic dysfunctional situation and relationship/friendship... and thus, YES, I end it.
Because, I am cognizant of the ill-effects of a particular person/friend, upon me... and that is it.

Mind you, this is after my possible attempts at being the typical 'understanding' friend and knowing that no one is perfect and la-di-dah... and doing what is rational and possible.

So then yes, I end it.
Because, Toxic people/mentally ill people... can, over time, make YOU toxic too... and then directly affect you and then, how you then treat others. Because that person/friend, is making you, miserable and/or their "drama" and maladies... are making your own life... degraded. And damaged. And, making you... Toxic as well, mentally/emotionally.

And then you must decide to be your own person, or become an 'enabler' or not.
Or, if you then will need counseling, JUST because of this person, because they are degrading you, too.

And, ya know... being the "ONLY" "friend" she has... to me, is not an excuse or a reason... to keep on going.
It is not a friendship.
It is a dysfunctional... rapport. And you are that person's "Dumpster".
And who wants to be, that.

So then, yes, I end it.

Again, Toxic dynamics, are toxic, unless the person, realizes that and, takes FULL initiative in it, to move on.
If not, then don't grumble about it.

It is not worth it.

Case solved.

The other bottom-line is: I... will NOT "allow" anyone, to make me mentally ill or Toxic or emotionally unhealthy.... on purpose. Regardless if they are a friend or family member.

I would be pushed to tell her how bad it is for her kids and how selfish she is. Every time I have had these conversations, the relationship ended and I didn't miss this.

I'd be worried about the kids, and not so much her. It's sad, and you don't want to enable, but if all you are doing is offering advice or listening on the phone, then seize the opportunity to tell her everything you posted here. Maybe no one has ever told her directly, what she is doing, and the cycle she seems to be repeating. Usually if she is continuing to pick these kind of men, she has something else going on. You should suggest therapy so she can find some inner strength to be her own person, and not let people make her think she deserves this for whatever reason.

I am not certain of the detail here. When she "turns to you" is it to help her out? Help her kids? Just listen to her woes? Are you in a position to be of any assistance to her kids that they would not have if you were estranged from their mother? Is it so bad that you feel Child Protective Services should be involved? Is this a danger issue, or a moral one? It is obviously a messed up situation, and there seems to be a real shortage of adults behaving as responsible adults around the kids, but as for what should be done.... I'm afraid there just isn't enough information. If you feel the kids are in some sort of danger, but you end the friendship without following up in some way.... well, that is a burden I would not want to bare. Sometimes it is worth a little bother to "keep tabs" on a situation so you at least know if things go real far south, you would be a phone call.

Sorry, I'm not much help, but it seems like a delicate situation, made even more complicated by the fact that this isn't just a random friendship, but she is family. Have you involved other members of the family in your concerns? Had an intervention?

I didn't see you mention her age. Maybe she is "young and stupid". She sounds like she needs mental help or a swift kick in the ass. I don't have much patience for women that enable a man's sick and abhorrent behavior. If they have kids, it is even less tolerable. She certainly wouldn't be alone in the club though.

So in a nutshell, this is how I would address your question. If the relationship is affecting you consistently in a negative manner, you may want to reevaluate your need/want to be in a draining relationship. What you could do is write her a thoughtful letter asking her to seriously consider what you are saying. If she is willing to make some positive changes in her life, then you will reevaluate ending the friendship but you can't watch your friend sink into oblivion and take her kids down with her, without it causing you immense pain and suffering too.

Good luck. True friends are hard to find.

Call CPS.. they most likely WONT take the kids away but it'll give her a wake-up call.. and it sounds as if that's what she really needs. If you do end the relationship tell her why so she's not in the dark.

Poor thing... sounds like she is a very damaged person, a person who has a bad past & no self esteem or self love because of it. Her life may be completely crazy in our eyes, but to her, it's most likely her "normal".

Have you told her how worried you are about her? I'd say, if you really love your friend, the best thing you can do for her is to talk to her about seeking some help to heal herself, from a 3rd party. Until she acknowledges her past & her issues, she & her kids will be in a cycle of destruction & dysfunction & she'll bring everyone around her down with her.

Now, if she is in denial & won't get help, then I'd say it might be time to back away. You can't help someone who won't help themselves. I am understanding of people's issues, but if they do nothing to help themselves & only complain, then it gets very draining. You are who you surround yourself with. For me, if a relationship becomes one sided & only a source of negativity & stress, then I'm done.

Here goes an Ephie Ramble:

Well, JUST to answer your question. I don't know. I've stayed in friendships where my friend/family member has been actively engaging in dysfunction and I've left friendships/family ties where the same has been going on. In either case, I've had to do a LOT of internal check ins.

What it comes down to is this: Am I getting something from this relationship. Is this relationship affirming my dysfunction and/or does enable me to shift out of it. When I'm with this person, am I the person I AM (and am learning to act as); do I feel like I have value and compassion, AND/or do I become someone who is fearful, shameful, obligated, compartmentalized, dishonest, self destructive, etc. Is that the inherent nature and product of this relationship, or something in ME that is stimulated by the situation, and CAN I learn about myself from working through it within the relationship? Am I here to fix THEM (which we don't get to do, no matter how we try), or am I here because it feels right, for me, to be here.

It's hard for me to work with/be in relationships with myself/people who are coping BY living in dysfunction (this is both a coping mechanism, as well as a system of damage). It's not something I get internally to change/fix, for another person. Though, I do get to choose (should that be my choice) to speak up and talk about my experience, what I see, how I feel, what's worked for me, and to share information about childhood trauma, adult addiction, statistics of domestic violence, etc.

For me, it's a LOT harder maintaining friendships/relationships where children are involved. Usually, it's been too hard for me to keep up. I can't deal with it on a personal level. Working next to folks in this situation, is somehow different because I'm not quite as emotionally invested and I don't make it about ME. The lines are clearer. I sometimes feel...toxic bearing witness to a loved ones damage. And, I forget that besides loving a person, offering resources and support, and being really honest (with myself and them), there's not a whole lot I CAN do to. Sometimes that feels liberating. Sometimes that feels really crappy.

And also, one minute it will feel right, and then it won't feel right again. So I have to spend a lot of energy checking in with myself (is this draining or invigorating. Is my investment conditional, is it about what I want them to do (am I pushing my agenda and what I think their path should be), or can I/do I want to/am I able to meet them where THEY are at?).

I've been in your friend's situation (before I had kids...although some elements of dysfunction are still with me/in my relationship and I get to/have to work out as a mother and wife too), so I resonate with your description.

My past is part of the reason why doing advocacy work, and sticking around for friends/family who are struggling in and with/their dysfunction, is productive for ME. I learn a lot about myself. I'm able to give back some of the strength and support that was lent to me (which feels empowering). AND also, it's dangerous, because it's VERY easy for me to fall into the: "I'll SAVE you" fallacy. Also, for me, it can be healing AND dysfunctional, and it's difficult to sort out.

If I'm able to see things as Just the Way it Is right now, it's different, for me than, this is what I want and I can't let go of it / this is the way it should be / this is about me.

PS, you're not going to be able to punish her or shock her into willingness to change. If she's willing to hear you out, about what you observe, that's fantastic. It's really more about where SHE's at and is able (within her internal context), to bring to the table, than what you're bringing to the table. This is decision is really, IMHO, about what feels right for YOU, and if you need to set boundaries for yourself...which is a personal decision and not about her or hers.

She's your cousin.
You can either speak your mind (not that it will guarantee any change in her behavior) or keep a quiet eye out for the kids.

Most beneficial would probably be the latter, don't you think?

I'd put some distance in the relationship if it were me. It's crappy the way she is doing herself and her kids, but what can you do, it's not your life and getting a front row seat is not helping anyone. When I have friendships like this, I put some distance for all our sake. Still be friendly of course, and maybe make a point to call her every couple weeks. If she is blowing up your phone, oh well. Just tell her you have been real busy when you call. She knows you are stable and that if she really wants to change you are there, so I wouldn't just cut her off, but I would back way off. I don't know that I'd call CPS bc foster care is not always rosy either so I'd get out of it. The less you know the better and the more likely you are to not be judgmental when you do talk, it is hard to know intimate details and then just listen and being someone's sounding board who has no intention of changing is not helping her or you. So that is what I would do, I wouldn't end the relationship but I would let it breathe a bit. Good luck!!

Stay in it for the kids.

This is a very difficult situation. The situation is bad but eventually it will bleed over into your life and make you suffer also. She has no self esteem. Sometimes people have to reach the bottom before they can bounce back up. Call CPS and give her a wake up call. Sometimes that is what it takes.

You should help her. Don't walk away or distance yourself just yet. You obviously see a problem here & perhaps CPS can be the change that she's needing. She may be co-dependent for some reason like she has low self esteem or thinks that she couldn't possibly deserve better, but she does & you need to say that to her very adamently again & again, be adament on trying to help her. If you still can't get anywhere w/her then at least you tried & at that point after trying all options then maybe CPS would be the only answer but I'd really try to help her as best you can at first before walking away. Sometimes walking away is the only thing you can do. I had to do the same w/one of my cousins so I can really understand how you feel right now. Good luck.

Well you can simply look at it like this.. even IF you tell her pointblank how you feel about what she is doing to her and her children's life, she ISNT going to stop what she is doing until SHE chooses to do as such... and even IF you don't tell her how you feel, she is still going to do as she sees fit to do.. That said, you could still be friends and do things for the kids but where she is concerned, just take a step back.. knowing full well that people don't change unless THEY want to change. also, IF you do keep in contact, know that you can't expect much from her and won't get much.. so don't have expectations with this friendship.. and lastly, IF you truly feel that the kids are not being well cared for. you could do an anonymous report. I mean if there is abuse here, then that should be reported..

The crappy part of this is... if she has daughters they are going to end up with someone that treats them like crap because thats all they know... so sad.

Where are her parents? can you call them? maybe they can step in

good luck...keep us posted

Although no one will like what i have to say i will still say it. YOU CANNOT HELP HER! She has to help herself and in order for her to do that she has to know what she is doing or not doing needs work. Its no different than an addict of any kind. You can try and try and try but until they truely see that the need help it will do no good. If the children are in an abusive situation or situation of neglect or foul play of any sort. around drugs violence or anything that poses potential harm/ danger and you know this for a fact(not just assume or feel like they are) then file a report with CPS. Protect the children in a way that legal action and keep them protected. And pray that she seeks help but until she does atleast you will know the children are in a better position. Good luck and I hope for the best!