Sad over friendships

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1

My daughter is 13 and very shy. A few years ago, she had a best friend who was very bossy and mean to her. She always had to be in charge, and her parents looked at her as a "leader" and were very proud of her take charge attitude. Meanwhile, my daughter, wanting to be considerate and wanting not to be seen as bossy, allowed this girl to simply take over. She didn't need a leader, she needed a friend. The girl pushed her around so much, she was in tears every day, and yet she remained very loyal to her. Another girl's parents got very upset with their daughter's behavior anytime she was around pushy girl and forbade her from playing with pushy girl. But pushy girl and pushy girl's parents, not knowing the truth, blamed my daughter for stealing pushy girl's friend. So pushy girl decided to completely exclude my daughter and did her best to get all their mutual friends to do the same. The mom supported her daughter's actions and shunned me as well, although to this day she has never told me why. My daughter and I were both very hurt and as a result, my daughter has serious trust issues, three years later, when it comes to friends.

My issue now is my best friend's daughter is still friends with this girl. Not good friends - they get together about once a month or so, as pushy girl now goes to a different school. My best friend doesn't like the girl or the mom. Her daughter has been bullied by her and still goes back for more and the mom lets her, even though she complains to me about it the whole time. She knows how mean the mom has been to me, how mean the daughter has been to my daughter, and yet, she never defends me to her. She just says nothing. I'm still so hurt that this girl, without understanding or explanation, was so mean to my daughter and that we still feel the repercussions of this behavior even today. I don't really know how to articulate my question - I guess I'm just wondering how I process these feelings of sadness and disappointment over my daughter being so isolated, how I understand why my friend and her daughter are maintaining this friendship, even though they know how much this girl hurt my child. I would never tell my friend these things and I have no rational reason to be angry about it, and yet, I can't help feel mad, disappointed, betrayed by my friend.

So, I guess I'm asking - how do I process these feelings? How do I not be angry at my friend for doing what she feels is right with her daughter (and which I know is her right to do?) Would your feelings be hurt by this?

2

I suggest that you buy our check out the book “Queen Bees and Wanna Bees” and read through it with your daughter.

What it comes down to is this: You are entirely too enmeshed and involved in your daughter’s friendships. Furthermore, your attitude is that she is forever affected by this bossy girl, and that you are as well. This is absurd, in my opinion. You, as the parent, should be guiding her to be resilient, not marinate in how hurt she is over a dysfunctional friendship that didn’t work out when she was 10.

So, how do you process these feelings with your friend’s daughter being friends with the mean-girl who was mean to your daughter? You remind yourself that you have no business becoming emotionally invovled in this situation. You remind yourself that a healthy self does not cross into other people’s emotional territory, and to do so is controlling and codependent behavior.

It’s not all about your and your daughter. This is not the Pansy and Little Pansy show. Remember that.

3

Some of my friends are also friends with people I don’t like. I don’t get to choose other people’s friends.
Some of my friends don’t like some of my other friends. Other people don’t get to choose my friends.
Let’s call your friend A and Pushy Kid’s mom B. Your friendship with A needs to be about what happens between you and A. Not about your daughter and PK, not about your daughter’s friend and PK, not about you and B, not about A and B.
Sounds to me like A’s kid is still in the same situation yours was, would still be in had PK not shunned her. In the long run, being shunned by PK was a good thing for your kid, but A’s kid is going to have to summon the guts to walk away if she doesn’t want to be pushed around anymore. Or A is going to have to summon the guts to walk away from PK’s mom. Or all of the above.
But until that happens. your feelings are what they are.
If you’re hurt, say so. See what she says.
But don’t be surprised if nothing changes. Had PK not pushed your kid out of her inner circle, you would still be tolerating her mom’s behavior too.

4

I think you would do best to stay out of it, tell your other friend that you had issues with their family in the past and just want to move on, and not be a sounding board for any venting on her end. If she complains to you, say that this topic is a sore subject for you and your DD, and you don’t want to talk about that other family anymore.

5

Of course!
We like when our friends agree with us!
But–kids & frienships can be tricky.
We can’t control the frienships that other people maintain or let go.
I’m sure this little brat will get her due eventually–those types usually do.
I feel like parents are too involved the the social lives of their kids.
You need to accept that your friend and her daughter have the right to be friends with whoever they choose to, and that it’s not a reflection on you or your daughter in any way.
When it’s a poor choice–it’s actually a reflection on them.
So if you CANNOT get past it? Give it some space.
Don’t worry, your daughter is going to find several friends if like mind, then you’ll have a hard time believing this all ever affected you this much.
Let it go.
Be Switzerland,
If these are good friends, don’t jeopardize the good friendships over bad ones.

6

I think you need to separate YOUR friendships from your daughters friendships.

That is my opinion.

Your daughter needs to be in control…especially at the age of 13!

Perhaps there is an ‘assertiveness training’ that you can google that will assist your daughter i standing up for herself.

And you need to keep separate YOUR friendships- and not make them contingent on your daughter and her friends…

Otherwise, I suggest, in 5 years YOU will be left with no friends - and your daughter will be moving on in life.

Sorry to be so candid, but this is how this ‘reads’ to me.

best

7

Please go talk to a counselor about this. I’m not saying this to be harsh, but because I used to think the way you do and get caught up in the whole “how can you still be friends with Betty Lou when she treated me so badly?”

You are expecting her to join your battle and wage war against a person she does not have enough of a problem with to avoid. Your expectations of your friend aren’t reasonable and your boundaries with her are really fuzzy.

She has her own relationships to maintain. We all get caught in other people’s expectations. Currently, I am getting leaned on by two separate entities – who both only want the best and mean well-- on how to handle a situation, in two distinctly different ways. Neither seem to understand that I am operating from a place of knowing I will be in long-term relationships with the others involved-- and that I am aware we all have our own agendas.

It may be that your agenda is to remove this toxic woman as far as possible from your life and that your friend’s agenda is to be very politic about things.
Her daughter will have to learn, for herself, to stay away from this other girl. Heck, I see this happen constantly at my son’s school. Kids who should know better go back for more. THEY have to figure out why they don’t want to be around that person that hurts them. Your friend will have to decide for herself what she wants to do. Right now, having the expectation that your friend will drop this ‘pushy mom’ like a hot potato because you did isn’t a reasonable one.

Go talk to someone and find out why you expect such an unreasonable degree of loyalty from another adult (which you aren’t married to). This expectation of loyalty might be the norm in high school, but from a 40-something-old perspective, it’s only going going to continue to burn you and you will only be continuously disappointed.

8

ETA: This information should have been part of your original post. I would not have put up with her bad mouthing you all over the place. There would have been screen shots and a lawyer involved before the end of the first year. You need to do that now because she will not stop without it and may have to be put in jail for her ways of libel/slander.

Oinginal: Have you not heard of the saying that friendships are for reasons, seasons and such. Some are long and some are short.

It sounds as if you are lucky that you are no longer in the mean girl’s circle.

Have your daughter associate with other girls her age in different events or hobbies.

You find yourself something to do that does not include your daughter or go back to school.

It is nice to have some similar family type friends but most of the friends are from things that you do. There are book, cooking, sewing, gardening, travel, jogging, exercise clubs – find one and join it.

It hurts but you are better off not being on the inside. You have freedom to be yourself and learn and grow in different directions than you now are.

When friends move on they have served or used up their time with you. Learn to know that the friends you really need are counted on one hand. The rest are acquaintances.

the other Suzanne

PS Life is too short to be this involved in childhood drama. Teach your child how to navigate in the world and to be self-reliant and successful. This, too, shall pass.

PPS I hope you do find peace.

9

So your upset with your friend because she lets her daughter have once a month play dates with a child who hurt your daughters feelings THREE years ago?

You need to let things go and stop carrying around other people’s ugliness. Clearly this is occupying way too much of your brain space. You are teaching your daughter how to live. She’s learning to hold on to pain and hurtful actions by others, blame friends for the personal social choices they make and wallow in sadness.

Why is she isolated? Focus on the positive relationships in her life, reaching out to people in friendship and asserting herself when someone oversteps their bounds. Help her learn and grow, this is her social life not yours.

If you really can’t do that then I think you need to talk to someone about your own hangs ups about friendship and life.

10

Pushy Girl and her mom hurt you and your daughter. It happened, and there are two ways you can deal with it. You can choose to leave it in the past and move forward, or you can choose to let it keep affecting you as you are right now. Personally, I would try and let it go.

Try to remember that your friend is the one being hurt now. Isn’t it sad that she isn’t able to see how much happier she and her daughter would be if they would just eliminate this family from their lives?

When this friend of yours complains, I would listen, don’t say much beyond, “Wow, that is so frustrating,” and look for an opportunity to change the subject. Then think to yourself, “Wow, it is so nice that these people are no longer in my life!”

11

I can only say how I would handle this in your shoes. My oldest is 9. She has a bratty best friend who I could see being mean to people or turning against my daughter. I even heard she was urging my daughter to be mean to another girl with her. I read my daughter the riot act and let her know in NO UNCERTAIN terms would she EVER get away with ganging up on anyone with a bully, nor would she be allowed to hang around with a bully, so she better keep her little friend in check. I told the girls mom that I had reprimanded my daughter and why so she was aware. I also checked up to make sure my daughter-and her bratty friend by default-had made amends to the other girl and were being nice to her. I will continue to check up.

If the girl did turn on my daughter or continue to be mean to others in my daughter’s company (which could happen), I will let my daughter know we do not associate with mean people. And we do not take the behavior personally. We move on and focus ourselves on nice people. Forgive the offender, stay away, and let it go. Stay happy, make new friends. The best revenge is always doing well for yourself.

You should not be sad about something a ten year old with a b**chy mom did 3 years ago. I hear you and I want to sympathize, but as an adult, you have to accept that there are bullies in the world and move on. There are SO MANY people like this, You can’t let them sadden you. This girl and her mom have way too much power in your lives. And sadly, you cannot control other people who tolerate other people. If it’s aggravating, stay away from your best friend. Her time is coming for the short end of the stick if she thinks that woman is a good friend to have.

Either you are self-confident enough not to give a crap that your best friend has a friendship with someone who has wronged you, or you decide she’s not a real friend if she likes such people and doesn’t defend you, bless her, forgive her, dismiss her, and move on.

But holding onto sadness is not the right decision. And it’s not teaching your daughter resilience, and your daughter STILL has trust issues-so she’s not resilient.

Your daughter once knew a very mean girl. The girl is still mean. So is her mom. The girl rounded up some minions and got other people to be mean to your daughter. The mom also excluded you. Three years ago. And now she goes to a different school.

That is diabolical behavior on their part. But there is nothing to be sad about anymore. Just an opportunity to teach your daughter to find the good in the world elsewhere rather than to dwell on past hurts.

Seems to me like you need to say to your best friend, “You know what, I feel so petty that I can’t be more dismissive of this, but I don’t even like hearing about her after what we went through, so let’s talk about something else.” Lay down the law. And then whenever she brings her up again, just roll your eyes and say, “Well yup, how bout them yankees, cuz like I said, I don’t want to hear about her.” Your friend doesn’t need to talk about that lady to you, nor expect you to comfort her for all the bad things that lady does. But you have to set up that boundary. Or it’s natural for her to vent to you since you’re familiar with that lady’s behavior.

Make it all stop.

12

Please get the book “Queen Bees and Wannabes” and read it yourself and discuss it with your daughter too. A lot of the girls’ behavior is very well outlined there. PG is probably a queen bee, and your daughter (and the other girl) are followers who always pay a price for the queen’s pleasure. The book can help you get it into perspective.

Regarding your own feelings: I might normally say to let this go or that you shouldn’t even be thinking about another person’s child’s friendships, BUT then this jumped out at me from your post:

“My best friend doesn’t like the girl or the mom. Her daughter has been bullied by her and still goes back for more and the mom lets her, even though she complains to me about it the whole time.”

If your friend’s daughter were seeing Pushy Girl (let’s say, PG) but you were not being talked to about it, or complained to, that would be one thing. It’s totally the other family’s prerogative, and the girls could have a different dynamic than your child did with PG.

But, yikes, your friend instead lets you know the play dates are happening and then complains about PG and PG’s mom to you. I would be hurt as well. It’s just bad form and thoughtless on her part, but consider for a moment two things about your friend:

First, I think maybe your friend is seeking your validation for her dislike of PG and the mom, frankly. Friend is probably hoping you will engage in a good vent with her and confirm her dislike of them both. Do you do that with her, or do you change the subject whenever friend brings up PG and mom to you?

Second, your friend dislikes PG as a friend for her child, yet she’s still letting her child play with PG. Your friend has no spine, really, and is letting her child run the show, if her daughter’s the one pushing for play dates (despite PG being bossy to her?). It’s sad more than it is cause for anger, because your friend is caving and not following her mom instincts and just saying no. It’s very easy to taper off a kid friendship that is based just on once a month play dates and where the kids don’t even see each other in school.Maybe it’ll help to see your friend as wanting validation and caving to these play dates – it means she’s pretty weak-willed, frankly. Maybe that’ll help you see her as more pathetic than disloyal.

Also, why do you say that your friend “never defends me to” PG’s mom? That’s unclear to me. Why would friend and PG’s mom be having conversations about you, and if they did, how would you know what was being said unless friend is blabbing to you about every single interaction she has with this woman?

If friend IS doing that, it’s time to say, when she next brings up PG/mom, “Hey, you know, my Sally had issues with PG-Name a while back. I don’t know how to react when you bring up PG and Mom, since I think you know already that we don’t see them any more. If your daughter wants to play with PG that’s fine, but that family’s not on our radar any more. Maybe you can talk to PG’s mom about it if the girls are not getting along.” Then change the topic. Every. Single. Time.

If friend just persists, I’d simply have to say, “You’ve told me repeatedly that you dislike PG as a friend for your girl, so as your friend I have to ask, why do you let your girl keep seeing her?”

13

Some of the best advice I’ve read on this site below - I am tucking some of that away for later :slight_smile:

Weird question, but were you wronged in some way as a child or teenager? Because I find people who can’t get past things, like someone treating you badly, or betraying you, usually are going back to a past, deeper hurt.

It took me a very long time to get over my first serious boyfriend. We were together for years and had lived together and he betrayed me. It was the first time anyone had really hurt me. Thanks to my mom and good friends, I was able to pick myself up and move on relatively quickly, but I couldn’t move past it for the longest time. I knew in my head he was a total jerk, and I knew I was better off without him, and I knew I deserved more - in the end, through therapy, I realized I was mad at myself. That I had allowed this arsehole into my life in the first place, and thought that’s all I deserved.

So I’m just wondering … are you mad at your friend, or at yourself for letting your daughter get all wrapped up in the drama with this horrible kid in the first place? I’m not a therapist so I could be totally wrong here … but when people have a really hard time moving on, it usually relates to themselves more than the person they think they are mad at or hurt by.

Your friend sounds kind of stunned for being friends with this lady if she’s already seen how she treats others. That’s her problem. Let that go. You can. It’s NOT a reflection of you.

In therapy, I learned to forgive myself - not the jerk - in order to move on. I thought that was the weirdest concept, because I had been the victim in my mind. But that’s a terrible way to think because you’re giving them all the power. They don’t really have it. You have the power to move on.

I don’t know if that helps, but it helped me. Sometimes when we go through crap we need to recognize we did the best we could, at the time, and then you just let it go. Let the drama go on without you.

Good luck :slight_smile: I hope you can move past it. It’s horrible to feel consumed by hurt/anger - I know how that feels. If she brings it up again, just say “Sorry, I didn’t have a good experience with her and I feel like this is just negative.”

14

You thank your lucky stars that you are out from under that family’s sphere of influence and you hope your best friends family wakes up some time soon.
That’s about all you can do.

15

Sometimes we just have to blurt out “This hurts my feelings, can you stop for a moment”. I have been friends with people for very long times and there is no perfect relationship. There are always going to be hurt feelings and little things that make it hard for us to not feel slighted. So you do need to openly ask her a question to try and bring the topic of the conversation to what happened in the past.

Such as.

“BFF, it really seems like you don’t like pushy mom or her girl…why do you let your daughter go over there? I mean, you guys decided a long time ago to cut ties with them and I got caught up in the middle of that and they dropped us over it but you went back and started being friends with them. I’m so confused about all that, what happened, why do you let her go over there?”.

Then sit and see what happens. If you word it right, maybe leaving out the “They dropped us/we got caught in the middle part” then she should feel safe and comfortable to open up and talk about what happened and why she decided to let her daughter be friends even after she said they weren’t going to let them be friends anymore.

16

Short answer is that you help your daughter heal from the hurt. How? By providing and encouraging new opportunities to make new friends.

Just about every child (and adult) has been hurt in a friendship at some point. It’s sad, for sure. Yet, it is essential to learn how to move past the hurt and get on with life. Otherwise, you risk isolation, living in victim mode (by this I mean not seeking new friendships for fear of being hurt), and missing wonderful opportunities to make new friends.

You’re letting the past experience with PG define your daughter’s existence in the present, and you are wasting way too much time in your head on a person who no longer matters to you. Make a vow that this stops today. Teach your girl about what real friendships look like so she can seek out solid friends and learn to remove herself quickly if she finds she’s in toxic relationships in the future.

I get that you’re hurt, too. What this other mom did was really awful, and at the same time, you must see that it’s time to chalk this up to an unfortunate experience in life, learn from it, and move on to new things, new experience, and new friends. You’re probably saying, ‘easier said than done,’ but really, what’s the alternative? Staying stuck in sadness over a losing a (bad) friend years ago? That’s not where you want to be, and it’s certainly not what you want for your daughter.

So, how do you process your feelings? Well, first you acknowledge them, which you have. Next, you make a CONSCIOUS decision to NOT let these feelings define you or prohibit you from moving on and developing ties with new people. You might need to do this every day for a while until it becomes your new reality.

You don’t let these feelings keep you from forming new friendships. You make another conscious decision to start letting these feelings go, and you may have to repeat this again and again each day until you have no more need to hang onto them. One way you can do this is to be candid when your other friend mentions mean mom and PG. You can simply tell your friend, “I felt really hurt when Megan and her daughter treated us so badly. I don’t want to waste any more of my time on conversations about her.” And MEAN it. No more time wasted on this person.

As others have recommended, the book “Queen Bees and Wannabees” is a great place to start. Get started this weekend with making plans for summer, perhaps camps, sports groups, whatever your daughter is interested in so she can look forward to meeting new friends. If she’s getting ready to go to high school in the fall, encourage her to think of clubs, activities, and organizations to get involved in to widen her opportunities to meet new people.

Good luck with this. You’ll feel so much better when you’re on the other side of this.

Julie F.

17

ETA after your So What Happened:

Maybe you should talk to a lawyer about threatening to sue her for libel. Maybe if your lawyer writes her a stern letter, she will shut her mouth. You never know - it might help. Some people will only stop when it hits their pocketbook…

Original:
Pansy, it has been a long time now. I really think that you ought to talk to a counselor. You need to get past it and you need to get your daughter help. You both are in a holding pattern with this and neither of you are going to get better if YOU can’t.

I honestly think it is important to go get counseling.

18

i’m sorry, i can’t offer much in the way of help because i was never this inextricably entwined in my kids’ friendships.
khairete
suz

19

Thank you everyone for your advice. You’re saying what I know intellectually to be true, but it’s hard to enact.
To clarify a few things -
-my daughter knows nothing what goes on between friends or my feelings about it. I’ve never shared that with her and I don’t let her see me upset.
-she has a very hard time initiating friendships and meet ups because of her anxiety, which started when this girl was such a frenemy to her. She is in therapy and on medication, but it will take a while. She is happy to meet friends who contact her, but she cannot yet initiate easily, she doesn’t trust friends, and this girl has made sure to isolate her as much as possible from her friends.
-I know three years is a long time. Pushy kid mom continues to badmouth me any chance she gets. She considers herself a huge anti-bullying advocate and holds up her daughter as a great example of a child who doesn’t bully but has been bullied. She tells everyone how she was bullied by me and another mom. But I have her blocked on Facebook and I haven’t talked to anyone about her but my best friend in the past three years. And even then, it’s because someone else brings her up. Last week, someone contacted me and screen shot a whole thread on Facebook in which she was retelling how she was my victim. She didn’t name me, but my friend recognized her story and wanted me to know. I haven’t had contact with this woman in over a year, I have her blocked, and somehow I’m the bully even though she badmouths me to everyone. So the initial problem started three years ago, but she continues it regularly. It makes me mad that not only is she still badmouthing me in public, but that her story is such a lie. And because I want to maintain a no contact policy with her, I can’t even defend myself when she does it.