Seeking Advice for Out of Control 16 year Old

I am seeking advice for a 16 year old who is out of control. A little bit about our sitation - I am 31 single female (no kids)with a 16 year old sister. Our mother died over 14 years ago, so she was raised primarily by our father. Out of pity for my youngest sister, he let her grow up doing whatever she wanted - no disipline whatsoever. In total, my father father has 4 kids - we are all from the same 2 parents. During these past years, ny father did not want us coming around or trying to disipline the youngest. Now at 16, she is beyond control. She disrespects my father in the worst way, is hardly ever home, goes to school when she wants to, is sexually active...the list goes on. My father is now fustrated and now EXPECTS us to step in but NOT tell her anything?? I have researched boot camps but they are way to expensive. I do not want her to ruin her life, but don't know what I can do. I feel overwhelmed at times because I am expected to step in now as the oldest. Is there anything that can be done?

Honestly, I don't think there is much you can do at this point to undo 14 years of no (poor) parenting. Your father is the one that needs to step in as the parent - he needs to find a good family counselor. But, in my experience, if the child doesn't get the boundaries they need established in these areas by the time they are 10-12, then the teen years go like this and there's not much to do - she has unfortunately not received any moral or social guidance, nor does she have any clue about her responsibilities in two years as an adult. She is likely going to have to learn things the hard way.

You might check with the school district to see if they can provide any economical recommendations. And, your father should check with his insurance policy and HR dept to see what counseling they can provide - mine provides 8 sessions at no cost. And, you could always write to the Dr. Phil show - this sounds like the sort of thing he knows how to deal with - and again your father has as many issues as your sister IMHO. And, at this point, it really isn't your problem. I grew up in a large family and I know the unrealistic expectations parents can make on the older kids and honestly, it's not fair for parents to forgo their responsibilities in this manner nor expect their adult children to fix the mistakes they made as parents.

Hello Monica, I agree somewhat with the first respondent but may be able to offer some guidance from my past experiences. I was divorced with three children with not much "emotional support" from the ex. All the discipline was up to me. Unfortunately, my kids got into all the things you don't want them to get into and I was really overwhelmed. I sought help from the Tough Love group. I don't agree with everything they have to say, but, I took from it what I needed and left the rest. At one point my oldest daughter said she was leaving home. There was nothing physically I could do to keep her there so I said, "Fine, let me pack your bag" and let her go. 24 hours later she was calling wanting to come back. That's where the tough love came in and I told her that she would have to have abide by the rules or she would have to find somewhere else to live. Sometimes that is the only thing you can do. Your father is responsible for her actions until she is 18 years old unless she is emancipated. I don't know if you are in a situation where you could take her in or if you even want to, but, if someone doesn't step in she is going to end up pregnant, on drugs or worse dead because of her actions. If your father is not willing to go to counseling or seek help from counselors (if he has the means to do so, if not there are public services available) you may have to tell him that you nor anyone else can help. If she were to live with you and he didn't support what you are trying to do with her and fell back into his continued pattern of "no discipline", that won't work either. There has to be a committment on the part of the adults in this child's life to stand firm against her behaviors. No boundaries growing up means no respect for anyone or anything. She may just have to learn the hard way by getting in trouble with the law and being forced into some sort of juvenile program. Again, your father is responsible. If you could take her in for a while and get some counseling (if she will go)(your father would need to get help too if he is to remain part of the picture) maybe you could do some good for her. It is a lot of hard work and heartache going through this and there are no easy answers. Do your other siblings want to or can they get involved? If they live in different towns sometimes getting the child out of their environment and being forced to abide by "new" rules helps. The best to you and your family. I don't know if you will find this helpful or not. Been there, done that & got the tee shirt!

We were in a similar situation with my sister-in-law. Her mother and father (my husband's step-father) had her late in life and she was always "the perfect little angel" to everyone and got what she wanted constantly and as her parents got older they became more and more lax with her and she got in alot of trouble constantly. Drugs, sex, expelled from school, etc. We all tried to do what we could as older siblings but we met the same resistant like you, we were told we were not her parents and we should butt out but if something came up we were all of a sudden asked to step in and try and talk to her. Sadly their mother died suddenly when she was 16 and it did get worst as her father struggled to cope. I can't say that her story has gotten much better but I can tell you that sadly her choices may become more destructive as we saw with our sister. We did get alot of help from our family pediatrician, they offered suggestions of counselors and facilities to try and help her and they monitored her health and behavior very closely with us. When she did go to counseling it did improve her behavior though she did not keep up with it. Maybe if one or all of you can commit to doing sessions with her seperately or together or making sure she goes counseling might help her. Asking the school counselor would also be a good idea. We were not able to call as siblings to get info for our sister so it will have to be her parent but if he is willing to get the info maybe you guys can step in and implement it. I know it is hard, but I think you will have to help. Our sister's father removed himself from the picture and we saw our sister go downhill fast. I hope it goes well for your family. Sorry this is long but i hope you find something in here that is helpful. Good Luck and God Bless.

I strongly encourage you to check out www.sosinc.org. This is a wonderful volunteer run organization dedicated to troubled teens and their parents. The cost is minimal. Please, please, please call or write them ASAP and get your sister signed up for Teen and Family Camp. It will be the best thing your family has ever done for all of you! Please call me if you have ANY questions. Sincerely, Becky 817-675-4418

Watch CMT's "Worlds Strictest Parents". What I think she needs is some seriously tough love. She needs to know there are consequences for her actions. Follow through, and keep it up. So what if she yells that she hates you. I promise you I promise you, she will love you more than you can imagine if you put your foot down and enforce the rules.

So what your dad is asking for, is for you and the other older sibs to step in and do/say something to set her straight, but do it without "saying anything" to offend her.

Hmmmm.......

I think first you need to do some tough love with Dad - tell him obviously HIS method doesn't work, and if he wants your help, it will be on your terms, with his support. He either agrees that you ALL get tough with her and deal with it as it needs to be, or STOP ASKING for help.

Tell your dad until he is willing to accept that he enables her behavior by tip-toeing around little sis, there is nothing you can do or say. He either gets on board by being willing to get tough and support what you older sibs want to do/say to re-direct her, or he can deal with it on his own and STOP complaining to you.

You can't fix little sis until you fix Dad, which is the source of the problem.

No this is not your responsibility. She wil get pg and probably is doing drugs. No one can talk to a person at this age. My daughter went wild at 14 and by 16 was pg. She would not do anything we wanted. I remarried to what I thought a wonderful man at least for 11 yrs I was really happy and loved my life for that time. He tried to be a good step dad but they treated him aweful. Rebelled and sneaked out. They have paid the consequences over and over. Still think they were right and had to go through it to become but I disagree. Most of us get there without all that pain. He did this by not putting down his foot and demanding respect. I did not allow my children to treat me the way I would not allow anyone to treat me. Both my kids left home and broke my heart at age 17. They have been out for 17 years. My daughter got her way by being pretty but my son has been in and out of jail for years. Has one child I am raising and one I am not and he keeps going to jail for not paying support. He is homeless, uses drugs and wasted his life. Had several chances to get it right and blew it burning bridges behind. I want to help him so bad but because of his past I just do not trust him. His dad helped, my mom helped and he just went back to what was stronger drugs. Counselors I found were mostly people with a degree that do not have children and have no idea the sacrifices and love and selfless of forgetting yourself and worry and praying one parent does to raise decent and careing children to be able to have Character and be honest. My son does not get it. Immature all his life. Still at age 34 is . Good luck. We looked at military too but at that time $16,000 and they could just walk if they wanted. We were responsible for them at age 17 until 18 but had no choices. I emancipated my daughter and tried to do so with my son but could not find him. They are on their own now and I had to learn to live my life. Now raising my son's beautiful girl he has no idea her pain from not having decent parents that care. tough Love is just parenting and not letting them get their way. Things we should have done as little children. I went for a year and then found myself trying to solve others problems that were worse then mine. Ginger W

There is an AMAZING program you may want to check out at http://createagreatfamily.org/node/12. Their teen and family camp is incredible -- I have seen it change lives drastically. Even hard-core rebellious teens leave the program with a whole new sense of responsibility for their own behavior, and communicating with their families from the heart. Be sure to click on the tab for "tuition assistance" to check out the options if you cannot afford to pay for it yourself.

http://www.happyhillfarm.org/admissions_requirements.cfm

I do not know the cost, but here is yet another consideration:
http://www.outwardbound.org/index.cfm/do/are.index

Monica, I agree with JJ. You and your siblings talk and see what you think, but you can only do so much. Do what you can and accept that this is somewhat out of your control. Your Dad is not being fair to you. You love your sister. It's all complicated, but unless your Dad is on board it will be very rough. He has chosen to enable your sister. You can choose not too and that will help you, but if your Dad continues to enable her.....well, that is just out of your control and so you must protect yourself.

You may want to consider a couple of family therapy sessions. All your sibs and your Dad......or whomever you can get to attend. Find someone who will help guide the family. This does not have to be a long term thing. 2 or 3 sessions could make a huge difference in getting you on track. With or without Dad, but of course with Dad would be much better.

Don't give up Monica. Your sister is only 16, but do do realize the burden of this does not rest on your shoulders alone. Love your sister, but don't enable her. Understand you cannot rescue her. Don't judge her, but don't enable her. I think a good therapist could help you know how to do this.

Possibly some of the Mama's out there have a good and reasonable family therapist to recommend.
My Very Best Wishes for the very best outcome for you!

I choose change. It is in Allen on Greenville. Ms. Patrice is a wonderful counselor/life coach. I am praying for you.

This works...www.sosinc.org. Enroll her in Basic 1. It's onlyl $79 if you sign up a week prior (it's offered each month). It might be for 18 and up...if so, there is a teen program. Good luck.

Monica, as you know the teens years are very hard, even in the best of circumstances. I feel for you and well know what can happen to an out of control child. My nephew is 24 and still out of control. The sooner you and your dad do something the better. Once a child is declared an adult, you can do nothing without their consent. She definitely needs a wake up call. Are ya'll Christians? Christian counciling would be good. If she gets into too much trouble she can be sent somewhere by the state. Tough love is definitely over due. Write to Dr. Phil. Do something. Buy a book. Put a plan in place and stick to it. Hopefully you will get some very useful advice from others too.
Jeanne

Seaborne ChalleNge. It's in Galveston and there isn't a cost to attend. It's a military type school for at risk youth ages 16-18 run by the National Guard. The kids live there for either 6 or 9 months (I can't remember). They get their GED, along with community service, life skills and other skills that will help them in their growing up.

My son wanted to quit school & the councelor at his school gave us the information about Seaborne. He was willing to look at it and consider it, so we went to a presentation in Arlington (we're from Tyler). He sat thru the presentation and didn't fidget - actually listened to the man that was talking about it. I was encouraged, so I got an application. He fought me about it - said he didn't want to go, but finally filled it out. I sent it in and he was accepted. He agreed to go, but then backed out when we got to Galveston. He regrets that decision now.

http://www.ngycp.org/site/state/tx

You didn't say if there was drug/alcohol abuse but if there is, there is another program called Restoration Ranch based out of Tuscumbia, Alabama - there is also no cost for that program. They have 14 locations across the country. I'm not sure if they work with teenagers, but it's also live in program - Christian based recovery. I don't know too much about it, but they've been around for a long time. I heard about them on American Family Radio (AFR) a couple of weeks ago. Their phone number is (256) 381-0930.

Hopefully these two will be helpful and get you started. I will pray for you and your family in having to deal with a troubled teenager. I also will pray for your little sister.

You can email me if you just need to talk or have a sounding board.

God Bless you,
Frances

I highly recommend www.sosinc.org. I know one of the gals who runs this organization and she's wonderful...and totally dedicated to helping kids and their families. Lots of lives are turned around here. Best to you and your family.

First, I hate that you've been asked to take over this situation withbut your father's help, but remember, you do not have to follow his rules if he wants help with and for her. Not tell her anything? About what? Not tell her that she's out of control and about to ruin her life? Not get his help? Not tell her that your dad may have skipped on the discipline to make up for her loss of her mother or that he might have been too depressed or inexperienced to deal with being the sole parent or had a role model from his parents to making healthy rules and family rituals?

This isn't the way to help her best. You can make some rules yourself. Tell dad that if he wants your help, you want no secrets from you or her -- that he needs to come with you to interview her teachers, perhaps in a group that the vice principal sets up, to learn about what they think. Add in the school counselor too. Dad needs to openly support these efforts and her changes for the better and learn firsthand from them -- not filtered through you or his guilt or his pride. Or, he might "save" her from you because by now, she knows that he is a pushover.

Let the vice principle know you both are trying to help her turn things around so you are seeking their perspective from what all her teachers have observed. They may have varied experiences so they should all be involved. Have a counselor on hand too. They see patterns from who she hangs out with. Example: Do they suspect drug use because of who she hangs around with, ADHD, compulsive behavior, self-esteem issues, learning differences, depression, social skills?

Then speak to the counselor alone afterwards. Then the vice principel. Ask them for anything else they'd like to add that they hadn't said or suspect. Ask the counselor and vice principle what resources are in the community that they think might help or get to the source of her issues. Your dad can remain quiet if he doesn't know what to ask or an appropriate way to respond (not defensively!).

Ask the parents of her friends for their perspective, in person, in their homes, without their kids' around. You get the best perspective of their values and lifestyle or similar frustrations that way.

Sometimes .......... talking to one of her better type friends (that aren't messing up so badly) can help. Start by saying .... We want to help her, but we don't know what the biggest problems are. Can you help us figure this out? They might be wanting to help but don't know how.

If your skills or frustration or feelings compromise your ability to talk to her about this, let the counselors talk to her with you there. You'll learn communication skills that will serve you and your dad for life. If you don't keep secrets, she'll be more willing to let the counselor speak to you candidly. There are rules there. Your sister can refuse that but that's okay if needed. She must trust the counselor and you first that you are in it to help her, not punish her.

Don't try to come off perfect. She knows full well that you are not. We all are not. We all can grow. It takes work, but the outcome for all can be fantastic.

I don't know the outcome of bootcamps, but I do know the success of the above steps from a parent standpoint. I suspect a bootcamp might fill them with anger, resentment, and give them other more-troubled friends (or introduce them to drugs if she hasn't been already). People tend to "self-medicate" away their problems with drugs or pills if they don't get the right kind of help.

She needs to see the potential for a better life, not a worse one. You don't want her to run away and seek an "understanding family" through a pimp or drug dealer and his friends. That life can lead to an early death. Good luck!

Monica,
First let me say that I am praying for you and your sister. I completely understand what you are going through. My daughter was out of control when she was 16. She was skipping school, hanging out with some really scuzzy people. It is so hard to find help. The only thing the school would do to help was threaten to take me to court because she was skipping school. I would drop her off, she would go in the front door of the school and out the back door. They would call my house and leave messages, which she of course erased along with the caller ID. I too could not afford boot camps. A counselor that we were seeing for anger management - she ran away and the police require them to take it, told me about Boles Childrens Home. It is a Christian organization in Quinlan. About 45 minutes east of Dallas. I got her in there and she lived with a wonderful couple and several other girls for about 6 months. It changed her life. She graduated from high school a year early and got an early grad scholarship. She still had some issues to work through, but sending her away broke the cycle that she was in with these friends. The cost is on a sliding scale according to what you can afford. It is a very open place, you can visit and they get to come home quite often and their summer programs are awesome. Here is a link to their website. www.boleschildrenshome.org
HTH!
Kathy

Girlstown USA in whiteface texas.I was sent there at 15 and it saved my life.They are great and free if they think they can help.All the girls live on campus 50-60 girls in all 10 girls per cattage.They have chores and jobs also lots of activites for positive reinforcement.They attend pulic school in whiteface.While I was there I did rodeo choir and band and showed animals in 4-h.You have what they call status and that is basically how they grade your behavior and that determines your privileges each week.If they decide to graduate from there they give reall good scholorships.They have a program for the seniors call the transistional living program where they teach about budgeting and life in generaal to prepare the girls for life after graduation.There is a chapel on campus that the girls attend wednesday night and sunday morning.I can explain the benfits of sending a child here.It was the best thing that ever happened to me.They will visit about once every month.Minimum stay they reccomend is a year.after my year was up I decided to graduate from there and stayed for 3 years.If you have any questions feel free to email me aimeestevens84@yahoo.com .

You've gotten some good advice, and I haven't personally had to deal with anything like this. But, here's something I haven't read yet in the responses.

HELP DAD FIRST & LOVE MATTERS MOST
I do believe your Dad should be the person to take the lead, and so offering your support to him by listening and finding resources and talking to counselors are all good ideas. First focus on being your Dad's support system rather than a "big sis to the rescue". Your Dad may be afraid that if the big sisters/brothers talk too tough to the baby that the family will lose her forever and she will run away (physically or emotionally) and then that would be tragic too. In the end LOVE is what matters most!! Teens can feel emotions so intensely. You don't want your sister to go over an edge by trying more radical things to rebel (drugs, self-abuse, crime, suicide) to break free, You want her to know that she's got a support system that loves her and is willing to help her, Your hand is outstretched, just waiting to help.

PRESERVE LOVE and FIND BALANCE
You want to preserve what is positive and loving in your relationships with both Dad and sister through this process. That's where a counselor can really help out. The counselor can help figure out some of the "good cop/bad cop" dynamics that need to go on here. There is going to be some TOUGH LOVE, but there must also be lots of GENTLE, CARING, PATIENT LOVE to BALANCE THINGS OUT. Your sister DESPERATELY NEEDS a mature friend to help her to save herself from a downhill spiral. That person might be you, and it might not. Pray that God will place THAT person(s) in her life right now and be a guardian angel to her.

INSPIRATION and CONFIDANT
Find out who she confides in now (boy friend, best friend, teacher)? Are they worried for her too? Maybe they can be part of the team that helps out here. It might seem like a long shot in the midst of the current situation, but your sister can find all the answers she needs in God's message to her. Whether she hears that message in music, a book, youth group, church, a religious friend, or family doesn't matter. The Lord created her and wants her to find her way to Him. Some folks have a dramatic conversion; others (most) learn bit by bit through the good and tough times of life. Look for people and/or stories of people who lost their way and turned it around. These stories might provide inspiration or a wake-up call for your sister, She might see herself in their stories.

BRICK WALL
Your sister might seem like she wants to crash into a brick wall, but she doesn't. She's crying and screaming for attention and boundaries and direction on the inside, I bet. You are not alone to help your sister. God's Word is there for you too. There is not greater advice to be received.

LOSING MOM
I know you love your sister and Dad, and losing your mom when you were a teenager must have been awful. Perhaps it will help to share some of yourself with your sister, and maybe she will open up to you too. Your Dad wasn't the "mom" that your sister needed, not that some Dads can't do it on there own. But your Dad lost control, and certainly he's been through his own tough times losing his wife and partner in parenting. The pain of losing a loved one lingers, but life does go on. You had a mom for 16 years, but your sister has not. There are things in her life that will be hard for you to relate to.

HAVE HOPE - WE ARE SURVIVORS!
Good luck to you. I'm an oldest sister too, so I understand that sense of wanting to protect and guide the little ones. Just by caring and loving you sister and Dad, you are helping out. 16 is still so young. She's got lots of time to live a wonderful life and for your family to heal and grow stronger in this situation. Have hope! Bad things may happen to your sister if she doesn't change her behaviors, but bad things can happen to those who walk a straight line too. A car wreak, cancer, a robbery, lost job are all overwhelming and scary, But, the Lord created us to be survivors! The reason that some boot camps and tough love programs are successful is because they show folks that they can survive and have courage. You don't have to go to boot camp to learn that lesson though, We can all muster up the courage to face our demons and challenges. You can. Your Dad can. Your sister can, even at 16. Have hope!