Considering having 10 year old daughter repeat 5th grade next year

My daughter's teacher suggested we hold my 10 year old back next year to repeat fifth grade. She has a lot of problems with Math. She is also the youngest in her class. She started school at 4 years of age but turned five during the first week of school. We also have her in Kumon to help her with Math and they just told me yesterday that they thought it would be good to hold her back also. Kumon and her teacher think it would be a lot easier for her if we did and said now is the time before she starts 6th grade, middle school. They say she will be lost if she doesn't understand the Math she needs to know. She is a good reader, she does have a little problem with understanding some directions. She likes to write also and does ok but her spelling is not the best. I also think it would be easier for her if she repeated a year and she has told me she feels the other kids are smarter than her. She however does not thankfully have low self esteem. I guess my main concern is she has been in this small charter school since kindergarten and she has been with the same kids the whole time. I have mentioned the possibility to her of repeating a grade and of course her response was she doesn't want to and she doesn't know the other kids who are now in forth grade that would be in fifth grade with her. She also, of course, wants to stay with her friends. I also feel bad because she is trying so hard at Kumon so she can catch up and I will feel really bad after all her effort to have to tell her she will have to repeat her grade. Have any of you had an experience like this, either with your child or possibly you when you were in school? I also started school when I was 4 and looking back it probably would have been good if I would have stayed back or better yet started a year later. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated. Thanks!

Is there any way that she can switch schools? I know that sounds odd, but it will be emotionally hard on her to watch her friends go forward and her stay behind. The kids that she will be in 5th grade with next year might tease her about still being there. My husband was help back in 4th grade and still recalls how hard it was on him when the kids taunted him about being slow/stupid ~ everyone knew he was held back. Switching schools will give her the social aspect of not being the student that was held back, she will just be the new kid in 5th grade. It sounds like you already have made the choice to repeat 5th grade, I would try to find a way to make this easier on your daughter for the social aspect of it, so she will get the educational aspect too. God bless and good luck.

Do you think she can catch up? that is the big question. You are the best person to tell if she can do this. If you truely believe that she can do it, she will do it to please you AND stay with her friends. If you and the school and the tutors all really believe she can't do it, then she won't be able to do it no matter how hard she works. She will be working against her problems and all the adults in her life telling her she can't ...
I feel that if you expect and support children at high levels, they will respond by rising to those levels... I know I got very lazy about school work moving between schools to a school that was slower than the first... redoing work can lead to that so easily.

is she going to be at the same school? Can she just repeat the math class? that might be an opption.

good luck
Rosa

Well many are recommending she stay back.
You as her Mom feels the same way.
It seems that it is not only "math" that she has trouble with... is her reading/writing/spelling/understanding direction considered on par for her grade level?
If not....then what? How will this impact her (emotionally/mentally) now and in the future if she cannot keep up and gets low grades?
Also, expecting/hoping her to "catch-up" during the summer time is a tall task for a child... can she catch up? Or not?
And yes, math will get harder in the next grade level....what is most beneficial for her, as a "whole" child? Emotions can really play a big part in it as well.

Next, for a child, friends are very important.
Stress is also bound to happen, either way. Stress at school work and stress in knowing she is staying behind, and not able to do math on par with her peers.
Emotionally... you need to gauge her. AND how does she handle "stress?" It can undermine a child, or make them try harder. BUT, do you want that mental/emotional stress upon her?
That is a hard thing to decide....

Next, is her self-esteem and ability to adapt to staying behind. And her "coping skills" at this age and per her personality...

Sometimes, putting more expectations/stress/pressure upon a child can make a child give up & tune out of school. Or it can make them try harder. Each child is different... but do not "dumb down" a child either. It's a hard balancing act.

When I was young, I had a hard time with math. I passed and did fine but it took me EXTRA work... and stress. My Mom, is a Valedictorian Math major in college. She tutored me and got so frustrated with me, because my brain simply did not understand Math well. I HATED doing math with her and just math in general. No matter what she tried, I did not catch on like a rocket scientist. I HATED math... most of my student years. I despised math. Not now as an adult....but most of my child years. And it is a negative memory of mine, something I 'remember' as a child.
So this is also something to think about.

each child has a "maturity" about learning... and an ability... talk with her about it, but not to negatively impact her self-esteem etc.

My daughter started Kindergarten at 4 almost turning 5, as she is late-born. She is now in 1st grade. I do see how the kids that are 1 year older, are perhaps more "able" to do harder school work....but my daughter does well in school and keeps up. I asked this question to her Teacher, if 1 year makes a difference and if "older" kids fare better...but she said no. It depends on the child and their emotional maturity as well.

All the best, I know this is not easy,
Susan

I'd put in a vote for holding her back. I have taught middle school and it really does matter if she doesn't know her basic math and what seems like minor spelling and reading issues aren't... they are major.
I really like the idea of putting her at a new school where the kids won't know that she was held back. If she doesn't know the fourth graders at her current school then it won't matter which of the two classes she's in. SOCIAL is NOT a reason to not hold her back.

Ps... Kumon is not all that great... worksheet tutors is what they are known as in the industry.

Does your school offer summer school during the summer, so that kids can repeat subjects like English or Math? If she could do that and complete it, then she would have the chance to advance with her peers the next year to 6th grade. If that is not possible, I would agree with the others about changing schools for the next school year. Do not let anyone label her as a failure. Do whatever you can to praise and encourage her and find positives in her academic gains, no matter how small. Let her know that every person is different and some people struggle with things (like math) that come so easily to others. Also, do what you can to make sure that she is involved in some activities in your area to provide socialization ( dance, Girl Scouts, cheerleading, religious activities,etc.) so that if she has to change schools, she can still have opportunities to keep some of the same friends.

Best of luck in this very difficult situation.

You know...I would honestly say that it depends on the kind of school she would be going to as well as the kind of school that she's in NOW.

Most middle schools that I know of have different periods. Hence, some kids are in pre-algebra, some in algebra, some in trig, etc. So it's nowhere NEAR as big a deal to be in a different level in math as it is in elementary school. She won't be lost, if she's in a class where everyone is at her level, instead of maybe one or two with her, most everyone else above, and a few who are years above and beyond EVERYONE.

Also, what's her charter school like? Are they up to the average grade level in math? Above? Below? If they're at or above, you may actually have zero problems in middle school. If they're below, and all of the kids are going to be in the lowest math level (aka there wouldn't be a class for your daughter) that could create big problems.

It's always been sort of a personal snobbery of mine that it's cruel and inhumane to put a bunch of kids all going through puberty in one place, together. (Then again, who else wants to have them inflicted on them?) Middle school is a painful battleground, and out of everyone I've ever met, only one or two actually had a good time there. If your daughter has good friends in her class now, regardless of whether you keep her back or send her on, make sure you two keep in contact as much as possible with them. She'll need them to help protect her from the cruelty of other kids.

A few other things to toss into the mix: Dyslexia, Dysgraphia (a disorder similar to dyslexia, but whereas there are no problems reading... writing is difficult to impossible), ADHD (while this -my :)- disorder is soooooo chronically over-diagnosed, girls are actually WAAAAAAY under-diagnosed, in large parts because they tend to do small muscle movements instead of large, and because their minds go into overdrive more often then boys -aka daydreaming-), & Hypoglycemia (low blood sugar).

While in general I am not advocating in either direction (I'm obviously leaning towards her moving on, because she won't be in age-math, but in skill-level-math...and she'll be with people that she knows)...because this is ultimately your decision, I would strongly suggest looking at involving your daughter in the decision.

Consider taking her up to the middle school when you go to talk with them about their curriculum and programs. That way, you'll both be informed.

Best of Luck
R

She sounds like a bright kid, as she likes reading and writing -- but because you mention that she has some difficulty following directions, in addition to the challenges she has with math and spelling -- I wonder if you've ever had her evaluated for a learning disability? I know that word is uncomfortable for a lot of parents -- but sometimes-- really bright competent kids, have specific learning issues -- that can get in the way of their taking in information (like an auditory processing issue -- which can make following instructions problematic). It would seem like an important step might be to have her fully evaluated by someone other than her current (small) school -- to fully understand what the challenges she faces are. Because the answer may not be to simply repeat a grade -- and get the same information repeated to her again. She may benefit by identifying what her specific learning issues are -- and getting the support and the tools that could help her in all areas of her life. If she feels that the other kids are "smarter" than her -- she's struggling with more than just math issues. I've worked in education, and find that kids who are struggling academically and discover that they have a learning disability -- are often greatly relieved to understand that its not about other kids being "smarter", but about their own specific learning challenges -- challenges that others have too, and that they can learn how to compensate, cope , and even overcome. I understand the concern you have about holding her back when her friends are continuing on -- but unless you fully understand what her educational issues are -- she'll keep feeling marginal whether she's with them or not. So my vote is for a full evaluation with a child psychologist/center that specializes in learning issues.
Good luck, you sound like a really loving, caring mom, and the fact that she has good self esteem is a real tribute to the solid foundation you've given her. All the best to you!

It's a tough decision for sure, but the teacher is right, the math does get more and more difficult. If you are mostly worried about her being able to make new friends, you'd be surprised how fast kids adjust. I am a teacher and I see new kids arrive during the year, and most of them adjust and make friends within the first few days. She's your dsughter and you know her the best, but if you think it will benefit her in the long-run I think you need to consider it. She still has middle school and high school math to tackle. I would also look inot tutoring in math outside of the school day. She may just need some one on one to get some foundational concepts. Good Luck! I am sure you will make the right decision for her. :)

This sounds like a bigger problem than math. I was a teacher in middle school for 10 years, was a pioneer in the field of dyslexia-dysgraphia, which also often went with problems with math. I had adopted children with many of these same problems. I would suggest that you look into this program: http://www.lindamoodbell.com/

I don't know where you live, but they do have a Center in Orange County. I think this might be more worth your money than the Kumon program. You need to get to the root of why this lack of ability to understand math might be related to not being able to follow directions, and also poor spelling. They have an intensive summer program. I'm not affiliated with them in any way. My grandson had some intensive work with them one summer through the Irvine School District, and it was recommended to him later by a therapist that I had test him as well, although he was not able to do the summer program.

If your daughter had been held back at an earlier age, it would have been better, perhaps, but this is a tough age, and I think particularly for girls. Anyway, just repeating the same thing again won't help if this is a core problem. She will continue to be faced with it year after year. I suggest, again, testing, and then an intensive summer therapy, and the grade may not need to be repeated.

Sharon Toji

It may be very hard for her to stay back, but it sounds like it is truly in her best interest. If you go ahead and push her on to 6th grade so that she will be more comfortable, she will probably gradually become more UNcomfortable as she falls further and further behind her friends academically over the next 6 years of school. If you hold her back now she'll surely make new friends and maybe have more time to socialize with them as she probably won't be spending all her time trying to figure out her homework! I would just explain to her that it will be much better as she grows to be held back now, and then expect that she won't understand it, and will probably be upset for while... but later in life she will surely understand and be thankful for you making the adult decision that she as a child certainly can't make on her own.

Hi Cindy,
I was a teacher for 17 years and I know how challenging this decision is for you. However, I also know how hard 6th grade is. I have watched students come into my class (with a recommended retention) only to give-up a few months later due to the challenging content.

Is it possible you can transfer her to a different school so she doesn't have to deal with the embarrassment of repeating a grade? When I have made recommendations for retention for past students, I also made the recommendation to transfer, and that seems to save a lot of heartache.
Best of luck in your decision.

Hi Cindy,
What if you use that knowledge, about your own experience, to explain the necessity? Maybe tell her how yes, she does need more help with the school work, but that due to your experiences, you need her to be a bit older and wiser and ready for the social, emotional, and physical aspects that middle school will bring. How middle school isn't just a bigger elementary school, but a completely different ball game and you would be kicking yourself if you sent her before she was ready. Let her know how difficult this decision was for you, but that you truly believe it is in her best interests, and you have discussed it with some other adults who are in "the know" and they are in complete agreeance. And her friends will still be there when she gets there the following year, so it isn't a permanent change, and plus, she will get to do all the fun stuff she liked this year, like field trips and projects again next year! I'd not focus on the school work aspect as much, which will give her a way to "save face" when she has to answer the question with her peers. That her mom was a young sixth grader and that do to her struggles, she'd prefer her daughter to be older when she went to middle school, or something like that. Anyway, good luck!

I was a teacher in public school for a few years and currently homeschool my children (they all started age 4). My daughter has struggled in math but is back on top of it. Does your school have combined classes? Where there are two grades in one classroom? That would be the best situation for her, to repeat but be in a class with the older grade. If not, try the repeat grade and see how she does. She'll make new friends and if it's not working out, you can talk with the principal about moving up in the first couple weeks which are mostly review anyway. Good luck!

You probably made the same mistake so many of us make in that we think our child is smart and ready for school early.
Definitely you should have waited one year to start her in school, isn't hindsight great.

I would definitely have her repeat the grade. It would be easier if she went to a different school. There is a stigma in being 'held back' and she will be teased and her friends won't be her friends anymore if she is in a lower grade. Girls can be so mean. The alternative is to pass her on to 6th and have her struggle the rest of her school years. Once she gets to 7th and above, school gets harder.
It is a tough decision, but the answer lies in 'what is best for my child'.

I am an elementary school teacher - 5 yrs in- and mosto fo the time retaining a student doesn't help much, esp when they have emotional bonds with their classmates. It would be really great to make sure she has help all summer so she can catch up. There are ways to make it fun for her too. good luck!

I know that it is a hard decision. I have only had experience with this at the school I work for with other children. My son is also a young 4th grader, since he started school at 4 also, but his is always the maturity issue, not his academic skills. It takes him about 5 months for the maturity of the grade he is in to catch up.

I work in resource at an elementary school and it is always a hard decision when it comes to holding a student back. Math is definitely going to get increasingly harder (not my daughter's strong suit either) and that does make them feel more challenged. It did cause us a lot of stress during those two middle school years. I wish I would have gotten her tutoring well before high school. We started at the end of her 8th grade year and she will most definitely need tutoring all through high school. I just know that's what we have to plan for.

Holding them back is a concern. Small school, harder stigma the older they get. This would be the last chance that you would have to make that decision, before middle school would be the best solution. You just need to really weigh the options and not take it all from her emotional stand point. She needs to feel successful and this may be one way to ensure that.

We did have a friend who was going to be held back, they happened to move to another state. She was able to stay in the same grade, but their curriculum in that state was about a year behind, so she was able to do the same curriculum again and it was a huge help to her. California is really a pushy state when it comes to standards, it makes it hard to keep up. Good luck and I hope some of my info helps.

Cindy, this is obvioulsy a very hot topic. I am a retired school teacher (special needs) and now a Family Wellness Coach. I see this all the time. My teaching experience was in middle school, mostly the "kids with academic challenges".

I will tell you what I know.

I know that the majority of my students in my "special class" were the younger ones in their grades.

I know that my daughter repeated grade 1 (she was born november 28) but I also had the experience to know that she was too young to move on. Now, in the 7th grade she is one of the oldest in her class, on the honour roll, in the math challenge program - currenlty competing with others across the country, AND that is with us taking a 3 month winter vacation to the carribean.

I know that "holding back" may cause a stigma with children this year, but "moving forward" and being the "last in the class" is worse. Her self esteem is fine now, but what happens with the pressures of being a teenager combine with her struggles in school? *A new school would of course eleviate those challenges.

I know that middle school is a HUGE change from elementary and if she is struggling now, she will continue to do so.

I know that as a parent, it is your responsibilty to do what is right for your child. You described all her struggles. Please do not believe that they will just go away. You already have her in Kumon, they know what they are doing.

Cindy, sometimes being a parent means making the tough choices. Of course she wants to stay with her friends. Of course she doen't want to "hang out with the 4th graders", of course she would be upset. But you, as the parent need to decide what is best. No, you don't have a crystal ball, no you cna't see into the future, but i ask you...

...if you know TODAY that by having her repeat this grade will eleviate many academic struggles for her for the next 5 years which will make her educational career that much more beneficial, then you do it. You just do it.

Barbilee

Hi Cindy,
We held back our son in kindergarten. He has an Oct birthday, and just was not on pace with the rest of his class. In talking with his teacher (who kept her own son back in kindergarten) and with him, we decided to have him repeat. We figured it was going to be a LOT easier to do it early than have to deal with this possibility in a couple of years.
It wasn't until we were faced with this, that I realized that I too probably should have been held back in elementary school. I have a Sept birthday, and I always struggled in school. I loved learning, but the work was always hard, even with tutoring. My mom was going to transfer me to a private school where they wanted to have me repeat 5th grade, but I made such a fuss that in the end she decided not to. In hindsight, I would have loved it if my mom had sent me to another school and had me repeat. Not at the time, mind you, but in the long run, there is no question I would have been better off.

As far as your daughter wanting to stay with her friends, that was my biggest concern too. This is too big a decision to let her make based on who she wants to play with. She will still be able to play with her old friends at recess, etc...plus she will be making a lot of new friends. Put a positive spin on it! Sixth grade is so intense. Math is a HUGE part of the curriculum. My son, who is now in 6th grade (and in the GATE program) has math homework everyday. There is also all the testing for middle school, April and May is filled with STAR testing and math placement testing for middle school.

Do what you think is best for her. You say her self esteem is good, so would holding her back really damage it in more than continuing to struggle in school?

Good luck!

i had mine repeat a grade - well it was in Montessori, so the "stigma" was not there, but the improvement i saw - all around not only in troubled subjects, but in social situations as well was amazing. go for it!
Good Luck
Victoria